Times and Seasons, 15 February 1842

  • Source Note
Page 693
image
those of high stature bow down to him? Is his name yet one over all the earth?—Until these questions can be answered in the affirmative, as they surely will in due time, the purpose of our selection will not be fulfilled; and the keeping of us as a separate people will still be the will of him, who has appointed our lot among the families of the earth. . . . . Shall we cast aside our real law at the bidding of the “London Society?” and the written law at the command of Deists, and self-styled philosophers? Ought we merely to accommodate our religious observance merely to suit our conveniences, and thus subject ourselves to be swayed by every wind that blows? What, if we were so lost to a sense of our own dignity, would become of the trust reposed in us by the Supreme Being? what of our religion?—of ourselves as a people, and of our offspring? Answer ye fathers of families: and above all, remember the day of retribution, when we shall each be required to render an account of the manner in which we have executed our holy office, and the trust committed to us?”
 
————
EXTRACT,
From Elder ’s Journal, , May 5, 1839, being a dialogue between , and the Rev. John James, a celebrated “Church of England” Minister, in , England.
“I was baptizing on the North Shore, when a Church of England minister, by the name of James, entered into conversation with some of the brethren while I was baptizing; after I got through I went to the company, when he addressed me rather uncourteously, saying:—
Mr. James.—This is , I suppose?
.—Yes sir, I answered.
J. I am told that you can answer me any question, and give a reason of the hope that is within you.
. If sir, it is asked in meekness and humility.
J. Oh, that is the condition, is it sir?
. I suppose, sir, that it will remain discretionary with me.
J. What need have we of any further revelation?
. Because we have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinances, corrupted the gospel, and lost the priesthood.
J. Did not our Savior say that the gates of hell should not prevail against his church.
. If, sir, it was built upon the rock spoken of.
J. Christ is that rock; and he said he would build his church upon that, and the gates of hell should not prevail against it.
. It will be necessary, sir, to examine the context:—our Savior asks, “whom say men that I the son of man am?” The disciples answer, some say Moses, some Elias, and some that John the Babtist is risen from the dead. But whom say ye that I am? was asked by the Savior.—Peter answered, “thou art Christ, the son of the living God.” How did you know it Peter? Flesh and blood hath not revealed this unto thee, but my father who is in heaven. It is evident that Peter had demonstrative evidence, from the revelations of God, that Jesus was the Messiah; and our Savior says, “Thou art Peter; and on this rock will I build my church, and the gates, &c.” Now, although Christ might be said to be the chief corner stone, the rock, they, they, (the people) did not know him: some thought that he was one person, and some another; none, however, had positive evidence but Peter, and he obtained his knowledge through revelation, and if they could not know him they did not build upon him; they could not be his church; and that promise could not apply to them; and wherever, and whenever the church is built upon that rock, and have the revelation of heaven for their guide, as Peter had, the gates of hell cannot prevail against it. But Paul, in writing to the Romans, says, “The Jews were broken off because of unbelief; and thou standest by faith, be not high-minded but fear; for if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.” He moreover tells them that if they do not continue in faith, they shall be cut off. Why were the Jews cut off? Because they killed the prophets, and stoned those that were sent unto them. And what did the Gentiles do with their prophets and apostles? They killed them, as the Jews did, and according to Paul’s testimony must be cut off. Besides, Daniel speaks of a certain power that was to “make war with the Saints, and prevail against them, until the ancient of days come.”
J. That shews that there must be saints!
. Daniel further says that he should “think to change times, and seasons, and they should be given into his hand,” &c. [p. 693]
those of high stature bow down to him? Is his name yet one over all the earth?—Until these questions can be answered in the affirmative, as they surely will in due time, the purpose of our selection will not be fulfilled; and the keeping of us as a separate people will still be the will of him, who has appointed our lot among the families of the earth. . . . . Shall we cast aside our real law at the bidding of the “London Society?” and the written law at the command of Deists, and self-styled philosophers? Ought we merely to accommodate our religious observance merely to suit our conveniences, and thus subject ourselves to be swayed by every wind that blows? What, if we were so lost to a sense of our own dignity, would become of the trust reposed in us by the Supreme Being? what of our religion?—of ourselves as a people, and of our offspring? Answer ye fathers of families: and above all, remember the day of retribution, when we shall each be required to render an account of the manner in which we have executed our holy office, and the trust committed to us?”
 
————
EXTRACT,
From Elder ’s Journal, , May 5, 1839, being a dialogue between , and the Rev. John James, a celebrated “Church of England” Minister, in , England.
“I was baptizing on the North Shore, when a Church of England minister, by the name of James, entered into conversation with some of the brethren while I was baptizing; after I got through I went to the company, when he addressed me rather uncourteously, saying:—
Mr. James.—This is , I suppose?
.—Yes sir, I answered.
J. I am told that you can answer me any question, and give a reason of the hope that is within you.
. If sir, it is asked in meekness and humility.
J. Oh, that is the condition, is it sir?
. I suppose, sir, that it will remain discretionary with me.
J. What need have we of any further revelation?
. Because we have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinances, corrupted the gospel, and lost the priesthood.
J. Did not our Savior say that the gates of hell should not prevail against his church.
. If, sir, it was built upon the rock spoken of.
J. Christ is that rock; and he said he would build his church upon that, and the gates of hell should not prevail against it.
. It will be necessary, sir, to examine the context:—our Savior asks, “whom say men that I the son of man am?” The disciples answer, some say Moses, some Elias, and some that John the Babtist is risen from the dead. But whom say ye that I am? was asked by the Savior.—Peter answered, “thou art Christ, the son of the living God.” How did you know it Peter? Flesh and blood hath not revealed this unto thee, but my father who is in heaven. It is evident that Peter had demonstrative evidence, from the revelations of God, that Jesus was the Messiah; and our Savior says, “Thou art Peter; and on this rock will I build my church, and the gates, &c.” Now, although Christ might be said to be the chief corner stone, the rock, they, they, (the people) did not know him: some thought that he was one person, and some another; none, however, had positive evidence but Peter, and he obtained his knowledge through revelation, and if they could not know him they did not build upon him; they could not be his church; and that promise could not apply to them; and wherever, and whenever the church is built upon that rock, and have the revelation of heaven for their guide, as Peter had, the gates of hell cannot prevail against it. But Paul, in writing to the Romans, says, “The Jews were broken off because of unbelief; and thou standest by faith, be not high-minded but fear; for if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.” He moreover tells them that if they do not continue in faith, they shall be cut off. Why were the Jews cut off? Because they killed the prophets, and stoned those that were sent unto them. And what did the Gentiles do with their prophets and apostles? They killed them, as the Jews did, and according to Paul’s testimony must be cut off. Besides, Daniel speaks of a certain power that was to “make war with the Saints, and prevail against them, until the ancient of days come.”
J. That shews that there must be saints!
. Daniel further says that he should “think to change times, and seasons, and they should be given into his hand,” &c. [p. 693]
Page 693